Agree or disagree?
@farmingandJesus No, that would mean everyone goes to heaven
I'm gonna explain this one more time just in case you didn't get it before from someone else. I know it's been explained, and you guys keep saying the same thing over and over. You are making an illogical conclusion. It doesn't logically follow from the claim. Universal atonement is true, meaning salvation is available to all. Not all accept the gift of salvation, meaning they go to hell. Hope that clears it up, and now you can proceed with a good conscience of not purporting a straw man argument of universal atonement.
@_ObjectiveTruth @rockreborn22 @farmingandJesus Let me ask you, do you believe in penal substitutionary atonement?
@txndc @_ObjectiveTruth @farmingandJesus This is the question I was going to ask
@rockreborn22 @txndc @farmingandJesus My answer is yes. PSA is fundamental to the Gosple. What does that have to do with this?
@_ObjectiveTruth @txndc @farmingandJesus It means that you believe that Christ was substituted and punished for the sins of every man, there’s nothing left to condemn at the end of the day. You’ll say unbelief, but that’s a sin as well. A sin that Christ died for.
Yeah, and again, the atonement is available and offered. Not all accept. There is no contradiction here. There is one sin that sends us to hell. The sin of unbelief. God doesn't send us to hell. God never intended for man to go there. It was made for the devil and his angels, as Christ said. We send ourselves there by rejecting Christ's sacrifice. This is why Jesus said every sin will be forgiven man except for blasphemy for the Holy Spirit, which is unbelief. Why won't it be forgiven? Because we've chosen not to be separated from the condemnation. The greek word used in Matt 12:31 for "forgiven" is take ln from the root word ἀπό. It means separation. So forgiven in this context means to be separated from the consequence. Consequence of unbelief will not be ἀπό because we reject Christ. Choosing to not be separated from condemnation.
@_ObjectiveTruth @txndc @farmingandJesus You don’t see the problem with your reasoning? Did Christ die for the sin of unbelief? If so, why does God punish people for it? Blasphemy of the Spirit is not equal to unbelief! If that were true, everybody would be condemned.
I literally just explained it. No, there is no problem with my reasoning. It's been perfectly logical. Christ died for it and, through his sacrifice, offers the atonement. That doesn't mean it's going to be accepted by the individual. Not sure where I'm losing you. But AJ, don't start to pretend like you actually want to appeal to logic and reason. We've had this conversation before about God demanding repentance from all men yet only allowing repentance to some. Just as an example of when I appealed to logic and you threw your hands up and admitted it's a paradox. So I'd rather avoid the facade of you appealing to reason if that's ok. Just be honest and say you don't agree, and you have your personal reasons for it. That's fine.
Brother, your reasoning is very poor on this issue. If Christ paid for the sin of an individual, it does not matter whether they accept it or not, the sins are paid for, the debt is cleared, there is no sin to condemn. This is why I asked you if you believe in penal substitutionary atonement before. It means you believe that the atonement is effectual , it accomplished something, it didn’t just make something possible. No comment on the ridiculous assertion that the sin of unbelief is equal to blasphemy of the Spirit?
The reasoning is there AJ. The Bible calls salvation a gift. A gift can be accepted or rejected. It's very simple. It's very logical and it's also true. Just because you're too stubborn to change your mind doesn't mean my reasoning is poor. Your reasoning and arguments on Calvinism is very poor in my opinion. We can go back and forth accusing all day long. I just wanted to correct a straw man that i see many people making.
@_ObjectiveTruth @txndc @farmingandJesus You’re not even attempting to answer anything that I say.
@rockreborn22 @_ObjectiveTruth @txndc @farmingandJesus My rule of never taking anyone with "theology" in their profile seriously is proving profitable.
@jontheharris @rockreborn22 @txndc @farmingandJesus Ya know you and I probably agree on 98 percent of the Christian faith. So this is silly.
@_ObjectiveTruth @rockreborn22 @txndc @farmingandJesus A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.
Ok. Let's put your judgment to the test by going through the Christian fundamentals and see where we disagree and therefore outing myself as a potential heretic. 1. There is a God. 2. God created mankind in His image. 3. Mankind sinned and separated themselves from God. 4. God is 3 in 1. Father, Son, Holy Spirit. 5. God sent His Son (Immanuel meaning God with us) by the name of Jesus, who is The Christ who came in the flesh to die on the cross as a sacrifice in place for mankind's sin and an atonement so that mankind can be restored to God. 6. After Christ's death He was buried and then rose again on the third day for our justification, defeating death. 7. The temple veil was rent, making the believer a spiritual priest where they have direct access to God. 8. Salvation is a free gift given to those who believe in the Gospel message, which is described in my previous points. Not earned by works but by faith alone in Christ. 9. Christ ascended into Heaven and is sitting on the right hand of the Father. 10. He gave commandments to believers to preach the Gospel, make disciples, and baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost. 11. Jesus will return to reign on Earth and give the regenerated a new body, new heaven, and new Earth. So where do we disagree? Help me out here.