single issue voter on the cabbage question i dont think chesterton framing this as "liberty and justice" is quite right, and "giving" grates on my ears. but i do think its probably a decent litmus test for something like "a basically functional society"
we're richer than ever blah blah blah but i suspect the cost of householding and raising a family in line with class expectations is sufficiently high that it's rather challenging for most young people in the US today
@eigenrobot Somewhat similar to the more poetic red headed girl vignette He does mention redistributing property if necessary to achieve the preservation of both cabbage patches and the kids with hair whom they feed, so “giving” tracks for him. plough.com/en/topics/just…
@eigenrobot single-issue cabbage voter all right
@eigenrobot Note the subtle hint that a landholding farmer fulfills this criterion while a salaried employee does not.
@eigenrobot Yet what of the honest farmer who can pull no bitches? This man will curse the system, and even cabbage itself.
@eigenrobot My "cabbage test" is "a decently sized home in a safe area within a 20 minute commute of a job center, home + transportation expenses at most 30% of the prevailing wage in said center". That also avoids the "inflated expectations" angle.
@eigenrobot I told my wife the other day that the measure of society is wether or not: 1. Normies have enough security and prosperity to live their normie lives without being prevented from doing so 2. Independent thinkers have established/approved paths out of normie-hood.
Cabbage isn't real. But, using the older framing of this (which the catholics ripped off) - A small hut of one's own is better, A man is his master at home: A couple of goats & a corded roof Still are better than begging. -he's right, in a sense, and the whole purpose of technological advancement is to get past the basic breakage of this )and a few other things) that are inherent to civilization
@eigenrobot A society that can’t perpetuate itself is just a truce. It’s not a real thing, but a fail state waiting for someone to make the first move to upend it and try again. The human spirit is one of conflict and survival. This is neither. Whose sons could countenance such a thing?
@eigenrobot "single issue voter", but who are you voting for? real question. what's the answer to this problem? I lean towards "gtfo of the way and let the market figure it out" but reckon that's a naive position to take when it's cheap & effortless to transport both goods and knowledge
Liberty in the fundamental sense. Core natural liberties: To eat, shit, and sleep free from (human) threat To get the fuck out )freedom of movement) This isn't even Jeffersonian, really, it's more basic. Sort of like you automatically have the liberty of owning your own means of production UNTIL civilization happens
@eigenrobot Meanwhile, in UK 100 years later
@eigenrobot They passed one resolution:—“Your sub-committee believe “You can lighten the curse of Adam when you’ve lightened the curse of Eve. “But till we are built like angels, with hammer and chisel and pen, “We will work for ourself and a woman, for ever and ever, amen.”
@eigenrobot Robot taking a pro-cabbage position, extraordinary.
@eigenrobot one cannot save both the goat and the cabbage
@eigenrobot Chesterton describes @kunley_drukpa ‘s “basically fineism” pretty well
@eigenrobot It’s not lowering of expectations insomuch as trying to cultivate an alternative picture that considers highlighting the fruits of crossing the threshold, and a good pattern to accomplish it Easier said than done ofcourse x.com/eigenrobot/sta…
@eigenrobot It’s not lowering of expectations insomuch as trying to cultivate an alternative picture that considers highlighting the fruits of crossing the threshold, and a good pattern to accomplish it Easier said than done ofcourse x.com/eigenrobot/sta…
@eigenrobot The premise is correct, but the devil is in the details. How many are the farms? Who are the farmers? What's the carrying capacity of citizens per farm? What's the allocation mechanism? If a theory grapples with these questions, it is "right". Otherwise it is "left".
@eigenrobot We can enjoy this passage of Chesterton's not just for its sentiments but for the pain it gives our libertarian readers.
@eigenrobot @KirkegaardEmil This particularly with the agricultural focus is interesting to envision in a Malthusian environment. It would seem to imply that the only way to avoid tyrany and shame is a sufficiently high death rate.
@eigenrobot I get why "giving" would grate. But my guess is that it does the denotative* work of stopping the system from taking the cabbage-field back. *The second alliteration was forced on me, but you have my apologies nonetheless.
@eigenrobot yeah, liberty certainly not. justice, though, maybe. to be married with children is, i think, their just deserts
@eigenrobot the zeroeth amendment that need not be written down
@eigenrobot I'm making babies no matter what. If I didn't live in the USA, I would move to a big country where I could hunt, fish & trap.
@eigenrobot life liberty and the pursuit of happiness
@eigenrobot Yeah, the "giving" part feels off to me too. Reminds me of something @ChristopherS453ChristopheerS45rS453 said about how these discussions often miss the real point.
